Private messages

[NorfolkGreg]

Mmm!

Haven't thought about using WORD. Are you saying write in WORD, save as an HTML file, and then paste the code from that into the default editor or perhaps the formatted document into Summernote?

(I may be showing ignorance here. I haven't used WORD in almost 25 years, not since Windows Millennium Edition was replaced. I retired from full time work in 1998 and have run OpenOffice and LibreOffice since then, for the very few paper documents I've needed to produce.)

[turboblack]

Mmm!

Haven't thought about using WORD. Are you saying write in WORD, save as an HTML file, and then paste the code from that into the default editor or perhaps the formatted document into Summernote?

(I may be showing ignorance here. I haven't used WORD in almost 25 years, not since Windows Millennium Edition was replaced. I retired from full time work in 1998 and have run OpenOffice and LibreOffice since then, for the very few paper documents I've needed to produce.)

no, a simple copy-paste of all or parts of the content.

The convenience is that you can edit offline, and the fact that a person may not even know where it will be used later. I write all my texts offline first, save them, and then use them somewhere

It seems to me that I use text editors precisely because I am not satisfied with visual site editors, and a simple copy-paste from a text editor (I use Atlantis Ocean Mind), even if there are tables and pictures, is copied normally. the main thing is that it fits into the width of the layout, you can adjust the width of the page in the editor itself, it’s quite convenient, and there are no problems with backspace))) this is not only your problem, if that happens.

I hate open office or microsoft office, I don’t use new programs, since I make pages adaptive for Internet Explorer 5, 6, they should open in all browsers, not just the newest ones. That's why I am categorically against using any frameworks.

my vision of progress is that the content should be interesting and necessary, how it is wrapped does not really matter, the content itself is important. if we adhere to this rule, and not bend under the inflatable progress from Google and other corporations that impose this on us, sites will be indexed because people go to them and read them. and succumbing to their tricks is slavery.

[NorfolkGreg]

Oops! I thought I'd already changed the subject line.

Ah! I think you are saying I should expect a newbie to treat WORD as a text editor. They write their code in that and paste it into WonderCMS's default editor! Why would they want to use a specialist text editor?

Of course, the answer is that you should use the right tool for the job. No sane man would use a hammer to drive in a screw, but it's not impossible to do it.

Initially, I thought you were suggesting that WORD could be used as a WYSIWYG editor and someone would attempt to paste a fully formatted document into Summernote.

But to put my change of topic in context, my concern was to consider who the expected user of WonderCMS is and if it isn't newcomers to web site development. In my case I didn't plan to use it myself, but still ended up thinking that encouraging new users to use Summernote (except for very small sites) is not the way to go.

[turboblack]

let's look at the situation like this:
If you look at absolutely all the visual editors that exist, they are more or less typical. what does it mean? and this means that a person of any qualification, of any age and on any computer will work with such an editor more or less the same way, right?

why do I say that Word is more convenient? Well, it's simple. because when you move the text (and you may have a dozen pages long) the menu remains in the same place. if you use Summernote, you will have to scroll up every time you need to make a selection, is it convenient? of course not! An experienced user knows that turning the mouse wheel in this case is a common thing. but what if we need a complex text format? frames, inserting photographs not just into the text, but beautifully formatting the sides of the text so that the photo is integrated into the text, is part of it, then Summernote will not work. no visual editor will do. editors like Summernote are needed for very simple gestures, and only when there is little content.

if you are talking about users, you need to choose something that is as convenient as possible for everyone together; you cannot please one despite the others.

and cannot be decided for the user. All users have different approaches, different qualifications, and different preferences.

Personally, I would prefer an alternative to Summernote in the form of Nice Edit, but there may be users who need a richer set of functions, or do not need any at all.

[NorfolkGreg]

Ah! Yes, I hadn't played with Summernote for long enough, or with deep enough pages to realise the issue with the fixed position of the toolbar. You're right that would be a pain.

I can see that having a WYSIWYG editor available is probably necessary to keep a new user on board while they try out the software, but it only convinces me further that once any user has created more than a handful of pages they'll catch on to the importance of allowing the stylesheet to do the work and the need to become familiar with CSS so they can customise it as necessary for their site.

[turboblack]

there is another editor there who edits "on the fly", but to put it mildly, he is not so hot)))
I think more plugins are needed, including for comparison.
for example, I was quite happy with the editor that was in version 0.6, but then they got rid of it, I don’t understand why, it was compact, simple, understandable code.

again, such things need to be discussed, and it is advisable to do this more often, because the matter has frozen.

I used to send ideas and my templates to Robert privately (by the way, almost half of the templates you see in the list are mine), but now I can’t do this because the option is disabled. and it’s not comme il faut to conduct such discussions here

[NorfolkGreg]

I think you refer to Monaco. Some of my thoughts about it can be found at:
https://gregchapman.uk/wondercms/monaco
It was looking at it and Summernote that made me wonder about who the target audience is for WonderCMS and what the implications are for the type of editor that should be available as a plug-in.

Those contributing to the forum appear to be either

1. Proficient coders happy to contribute to the project
2. Coders looking for a an extremely simple package with which to create a site that a client could then maintain without further support.
3. Complete beginners looking for a "no-coding-required" solution for building their first web site.

My current thought is that a coder's editor is probably not a priority for the first or second groups as they will already have a preferred editor that they use and its easy enough to paste that editor's output into the WonderCMS' default editor. Yes, it would be more convenient to have your favourite editor as a plug-in, but you may be the only one with that editor as a favourite.

I feel that some form of WYSIWYG editor is needed for the users who are total beginners. But I see that as a temporary feature that users should be encouraged to stop using, as soon as their site increases to more than a few pages. Beyond that point, the code that those editors generate is not easily decipherable and destroys the point of any stylesheet that is provided as part of the theme that the user has chosen.

That's why, on what is slowly becoming my WonderCMS tutorial site, I'm seeking editors that makes it easy to paste in blocks of code that can be trickier for newbies to get right, rather than ones with features like "auto-complete" which provide hints/prompts that are suitable for experienced coders, but will just baffle new web designers.

[turboblack]

My son is ideal as a user - he does video editing, photoshop, and is far from PHP and web design.

I persuaded him to make a website when he had been doing his hobby for a couple of years - and I was right! he is happy, the design is youthful (I made it back in 2019, and the site has been working since 2021), remember, that green fallout design. so - he fills it gradually (with the best works), and he uses Summernote "on-the-fly editor" where there are only a few options, but they are enough for blogging.
this is the title font, bold, italic, link, picture, and video (what else do you need?). The downside of this editor is that you cannot set the automatic expansion of images and videos to the width of the screen, it makes it either narrower or wider (in a simple Summernote you can simply set the width to 100% and move on), but as can be seen from experience, these functions are enough to run blog or post a portfolio (the site address is in the topic where we show our web pages).

The good thing about CMS is that it does not involve training, you only need basic user skills, upload it to the hosting, open it at the address, before that - register the hosting and domain, and attach the domain to the hosting. this is all. but as practice shows, this is also difficult for some, but this is no longer an engine problem.
Since the CMS audience is often untrained users who do not know how to code, there is a certain crisis in the adaptation of plugins and templates. but I think that the templates are more or less enough, another thing is that they should be not only for bootstrap, but also for other users, the majority of sites are viewed on the desktop. templates without frameworks (like yours) will attract more interested people who want to learn from a simple example, when the code is only a few kilobytes and is not confusing.

there is something else. the fact that the CMS is not multi-page, and for it to be like that, it needs a crutch. therefore, the optimal number of pages is 3-7 pieces. less is not enough, more is too much.
This is not a minus, it’s rather a plus, because this way you can better improve the functionality in a certain niche.
if you work for universality, you are wrong on all counts. because a universal engine is like an excavator digging a hole in a children's sandbox.
Do you want a WordPress site? )))) your page is, at best, a megabyte with images, and the engine weighs as much as an operating system. Cool!

to make it multi-page, you need sections, but..... are they really needed?

[NorfolkGreg]

The downside of this editor is that you cannot set the automatic expansion of images and videos to the width of the screen, it makes it either narrower or wider (in a simple Summernote you can simply set the width to 100%

Obviously I haven't used Summernote enough to discover all it's flaws. In my GregCustom theme I set images at 100% width and works when using the default editor.

[NorfolkGreg]

Just installed Summernote on my test site running the GregCustom theme on my phone. I placed the cursor at the start of the heading at the top of the page and loaded an image using the toolbar Icon and the file broswsing dialogue. The resulting code is:

Code: Select all

<h2><img src="https://gregchapman.uk/testsite/data/files/IMG_20240314_175117472.jpg"><br></h2><h2>Heading Here</h2>

and my stylesheet makes it fill the full width of the page regardless of phone orientation.

(Why a second set of heading tags, and an unwanted <br> tag, I don't know, but I am aware that is typical behaviour for Summernote. The code also got filled with "readability" attributes throughout, as well!)

Relevant code in the stylesheet is, for wide screens:

Code: Select all

.main img {
	display: block;
	border: 1px solid var(--imagebdr);
	max-width: 100%;
	margin: 0 auto 0 auto;
}

For narrow screens:

Code: Select all

.main img,
.main p.caption {
	display: block;
	border: 1px solid var(--imagebdr);
	width: 100%;
	margin-right: auto;
	margin-left: auto;
}

so I think I must be misunderstanding the problem you say you have.

The test image was a recently taken photo on the phone some 4080x2296px.